Gabrielle Hartley, Esq. joins us this week to talk about her book Better Apart and the 5 elements needed to help you find some peace as you navigate the choppy waters of divorce.
When Gabrielle was growing up, she didn’t really believe that divorce could be peaceful, even though she saw it first hand with her parents. To her, they were the exception, they were peace-loving hippies. As she studied law, she saw that there is indeed an abundance of toxic divorces out there, but also a possibility and a greater need for a better way.
The biggest part of the problem out there is fear. Many people at the beginning of their divorces feel that they need to arm themselves with an aggressive lawyer, even if that’s not who they are. Mediation is not necessarily for everyone, but there are ways to come back to yourself when your whole world is turning upside down.
In this episode:
Jennifer: Welcome to Divorce and Other Things You Can Handle, a branded podcast from Worthy. I’m Jennifer Butler, and I’m your host. Handled well, your divorce will be a stepping stone for your highest freedom and most conscious living. This powerful quote comes from the new book by our guest today, Gabrielle Hartley, titled, Better Apart: The Radically Positive Way to Separate. Gabrielle’s book is the first of its kind to combine legal advice from an attorney, with mindfulness techniques from a yoga expert.
In the March 11th edition, People Magazine calls Better Apart, “The conscious uncoupling how-to.” And Gwyneth Paltrow says, “Better Apart provides potent, accessible tools for you and your family’s future.” Gabrielle is a wealth of knowledge and heart, and she possesses a passion and energy for her work that is contagious to anyone in her presence.
One of our goals here at Worthy is to be a prominent voice in shifting the paradigm and the conversation around divorce, instilling the possibility that divorce can go hand-in-hand with positivity, mindfulness, and wisdom. Gabrielle’s book does exactly this, and we are so grateful to have aligned with her. I’m honored to have this time to speak with her, and this next half hour is going to be a treat for all of you who are listening. We’re going to take a short break, and then we will be back with Gabrielle Hartley.
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Gabrielle Hartley is an attorney, mediator, consultant, speaker, and author who offers ground-breaking divorce coaching and mediation nationally. She is known for her unique, non-toxic approach to divorce that she has developed over two decades in practice. Gabrielle keeps 99% of her cases out of the courtroom, and effectively supports her clients to create a healthy, uplifted, post-divorce life.
She is the creator of Your Elegant Divorce, which offers support to clients regardless of their location. Gabrielle is also the author of the book Better Apart: The Radically Positive Way to Separate, which we are going to be talking about today. Thank you so much, Gabrielle, for being here with me today.
Gabrielle: Thank you so much, Jen, for having me.
Jennifer: Absolutely. I’ve been looking forward to this all week, because-
Gabrielle: Me too.
Jennifer: … talking to you is so exciting, and that’s kind of odd to say when we’re talking about divorce, right?
Gabrielle: A lot of times people say, “Isn’t it so depressing to be a divorce lawyer?” I’m like, “No, I actually love it. I feel like I’m really helping people.” I didn’t decide to get the divorce, I was just sort of helping shepherd people through and beyond the process.
Jennifer: Yeah, and the way you do it, and your spirit, and your energy around it, it’s just … it’s so unique. Thank you for being here. I am so excited for our listeners and what you’re going to be giving them today. Let’s start with your story, because you have a very unique and broad perspective that you see divorce from.
Gabrielle: Thanks, Jen. When I grew up, my parents divorced when I was just about nine, and my brother was six. They had a true shared parenting plan at a time where that wasn’t so much of a thing. So I changed houses between my two parents almost every day. It was pretty complicated and ahead of the times. Anyway, so during that time, my friends’ parents were constantly commenting on how happy and well-adjusted I was given my circumstances, right? Because it was sort of wacky.
My parents were almost braggy about what amazing divorced people they were, and I kind of thought it was a lot of nonsense. I didn’t experience it as so great until I worked for Judge Jeffrey Sunshine, who is basically in charge of all the divorce courts in and New York State, and I saw firsthand how horribly people treat each other, how terrible the process can be, and I realized at that time that my parents had actually done a lot of things very well.
Now, couple with that that my parents were kind of hippies, and we went to yoga in barns, and did all kinds of wacky hippy things before they separated, in my 20s, I refound meditation and yoga. I brought these grounding, mindful processes into my practice, and when I took a step back and looked at what had my parents done that these other people could maybe learn from, I was able to distill it into what became the Your Elegant Divorce protocol.
Jennifer: I love that. I mean, because you’re experiencing it from being a child of divorce, and then being on the other end where you’re, as you said, shepherding people through on the other side.
Gabrielle: Yeah, and in New York City, you cannot even imagine, or maybe you can imagine, how crowded the court system was. There was a period of time where Judge Sunshine and I may have been the only judge and court attorney in the entire borough of Staten Island hearing all of the cases. You can just imagine how high the tensions were. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah, and so you’ve managed to take the combination of the legal advice, and your legal expertise, and then this mindfulness side of you that your parents really gifted you without really knowing it, and create this book.
Gabrielle: I wanted to mention that in the book, Elena Brower, who is a world-renowned yoga and meditation expert, she actually is the person who provides the meditations and lots of the yoga practices, because although I have been a yogi for over 20 years, that’s not my area of extreme expertise, and it’s definitely hers. So anyone who is someone who wants to go a little bit deeper or knows Elena would probably be interested in hearing her perspective. She also shares a bunch of personal anecdotes which are pretty interesting.
Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely. The book really is one of a kind, because somehow, you guys have brought together things that seem opposite. They seem so far apart, which is legal, financial aspects of divorce, alongside being mindful and conscious. How did you guys do that? How were you able to bring that together?
Gabrielle: That is such an awesome question, Jen. I get that question a lot, and in fact, when I first came up with this concept, which really, it’s not like I … it just came to me, because that’s just how I practice, and I decided to write a book about it. When I approached agents to begin with, I got a lot of quizzical replies, like, “What does one have to do with the other?” For me, they are so intertwined. If you don’t mind, can I take you a little bit through the process, and then maybe it will make better sense?
Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely.
Gabrielle: Okay, so Better Apart is created around these five essential elements, and they are patience, respect, clarity, peace, and forgiveness. Now, as soon as I say the word forgiveness, people are like, “Ah, forgiveness. After what they did to me?” Or whatever. But each of these five elements have nothing to do with the other person. They are all about you.
They are about you elevating yourself, and bringing yourself to a better place. So forgiveness, for instance, frees you. Remember that old expression that, “Holding onto anger is like drinking poison, and expecting the other person to die.” So there’s so many different points of holding on and letting go, and finding the edges to explore, where you can get what you need, and get some of what you want, and give the same to the other side.
You’d be surprised how often we don’t really want exactly the same things as the other person, but we are so locked in our position that we don’t realize this. For instance, I might be at a table as a mediator, and both parties feel or are expressing that they really want to keep the house. That’s a pretty typical scenario. You may be thinking, “Well, what are we going to do? They both want the house.”
But dig a little deeper, and it may not really be about the house for one of the people. For one of the people, it’s fear-based, like, “Where am I going to live?” The other person really wants the house. When we find that intersection, we’re able to move forward, and we are able to avoid a lot of unnecessary confrontation.
Jennifer: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you’re able to get people away from digging their feet in the sand, right? They don’t know why they’re doing it, but their feet are wedged in there, and they’re not letting go.
Gabrielle: Yeah, totally. Really, what Better Apart and what Your Elegant Divorce Consulting is about, it’s about shifting your inner narrative. Okay, so let’s just talk about that for a second. We think who we are is what we’re wearing, how we’re dressed, what we’re driving, who our friends are, where we’re going out to eat, and that might be how we see ourselves, and how the outside world sees us, but really, who are we? Really, we are nothing but our inner narratives, the stories that we tell ourselves about who we are. When things are going badly, what happens?
Jennifer: Well, we believe all the worst things, right?
Gabrielle: Exactly, and they become our inner loop. Through these five elements with the specific practices laid out in Better Apart, through these five elements, we can interrupt our thinking and create new habits and new pathways of thought that are more positive. Little by little, I mean, when you’re swirling in that totally upset, maelstrom of emotion that happens when you’re going through a difficult divorce or separation, you may only be able to get 10 minutes where you can actually clear your head, but that’s what this is all about.
It’s all about sending yourself new messages. “I am radiantly calm.” You just wake up in the morning, no matter how upset you feel in that moment, and you signal to yourself, “I am radiantly calm.” When you’re in the shower and you’re shampooing your head, again you say, “I am radiantly calm.” You do this throughout the day. Let’s just say if you’re trying to develop a patience practice, okay?
Then you get that phone call from your spouse, or that email that just sends you emotionally over the edge. Rather than responding in that second, you’re going to have created the habitual pathway of saying, “I am radiantly calm.” Even though you may still feel completely triggered, and half of your patience practice to begin with just goes right out the door, you’re going to be in the habit of saying, “I am radiantly calm.” That’s going to give you that one little extra beat, and maybe you’ll take a couple of deep breaths, and maybe you’ll reply right away, or maybe you’ll draft the email and sit on it overnight.
That doesn’t mean that you are not responding, but you’re turning the reaction into response. That resets the pathway of communication, which then will flow into … getting back to the original question, what does this have to do with parenting and finances? How we interact matters.
Jennifer: Right, absolutely. It sounds like what you’re saying is learning how to respond instead of react.
Jennifer: Yeah, which is a huge shift. It seems so minute, but when you’re responding, you’re coming from a different place than when you’re reacting, that reaction that’s usually emotional and fighting back.
Gabrielle: Yeah, and then what happens when we’re clouded with emotion? We’re not clear, and we are not thinking. We’re acting from a heightened, flooded, emotional brain, and the outcome is going to be muddy. We’re going to wind up having lots of chaos in our lives, which is not going to serve anybody; not you, not your family.
Jennifer: Yeah, and that’s exactly how I think most people describe their divorces, is very chaotic.
Gabrielle: That’s right. This whole practice, which I’m hoping that law schools will start making required reading in all family law classes, is so that the lawyers can start remembering that we’re not fighting a criminal case, or a car accident. This is a family that we’re helping to reconfigure. We’re helping to reshape these families.
As lawyers, we have to zealously advocate, but within the context of family law, we need to recall that long after our clients are no longer in our office, they still have to interact with each other, and if not with each other, with the aftermath of whatever we’ve created for their children and for their internal legacy.
Jennifer: That’s so powerful, and I feel like that’s a whole other conversation that we could have about really helping people to make that a priority to connect with attorneys that have that as their own inner monologue.
Gabrielle: That’s right. Unfortunately, it’s hard. Law is something that changes very, very slowly, and law schools are institutional, so to break into the law school, and the professors already have their required reading, et cetera, but if we could get Better Apart in there, start to create a nice pathway for conversations to have with the young kids who are in law school, because they’re going to be the people who are going to be doing the advocating as we go forward. We can really start to shift the thinking where the rubber meets the road.
Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely. Then from the other side too, if we as people going through it start asking for more, for an elevated way of doing this, I think that the common thread now is get the bulldog. You have to get the attorney that’s going to fight, and get what you want at whatever cost, because you’re afraid that your ex or future ex is going to have that on their side. So that fear, it seems like it’s all fear-driven.
Gabrielle: That’s right, and I do think that if we look at the media as a model, I do think we’re starting to shift a little bit. We don’t have as many Kramer vs. Kramer and War of the Roses happening. Now we have more The Good Divorce. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Jennifer: Right, yeah.
Gabrielle: I think that we’re seeing more models of positive divorces in our media, but there is still that sense of hiring the bulldog. We go over in the book, I have a whole section on different approaches to your divorce, and how to select a lawyer. The one thing that you really need to tap into here as a person going through a divorce is into your inner tuition. If it doesn’t feel right, if the road you’re going down is one that you’re doing because others are telling you to do it, you really need to listen to that inner voice, and start to develop trust in yourself, because that’s where all your relationships are going to begin.
If you act in a way that you don’t want to be, you’re going to start recreating that negative loop, just down a different path. Maybe it’s a different negative loop. What we really want to do is start feeling good right now. As long as we know we only have one life, and why would we went to waste our days feeling bad and fighting? That doesn’t mean that you should be weak and let yourself be taken advantage of. I don’t think mediation is for everybody. I don’t think settlement is for absolutely everybody, although I think ultimately, most people can resolve things kindly without a judge’s intervention.
Sometimes it’s necessary to go to court and to go to a judge, and even if that’s the case, you can still shift your inner narrative, and elevate your self-respect. Get clear on what you want. Forgive yourself for being human and for having all these feelings that many of which may be negative. Start to create the pathways of compassion for yourself, because that’s where emotional freedom’s going to start.
Jennifer: Yeah, and I think that’s where your five elements are really powerful, because when you’re going through this, you feel very disconnected to your intuition because of the chaos, because how can you trust yourself? There’s all this self-doubt. There’s all this-
Gabrielle: Totally. Hopefully.
Jennifer: … stuff going on. It’s like, “Okay, I want to trust my intuition, but how can I?” I think that’s where your elements are just … they’re so spot-on, because they help you to connect to your intuition.
Gabrielle: And they’re not too much at once. It’s like my kid’s studied Suzuki instruments, and we talk a lot about just working on one small change for a week. Even though things might be out of key, and the fingering might be bad, or this or that, we just worry about bending the pinky for this week. It’s sort of like that. Pick one thing.
You might be feeling unclear, and full of shame, and incredibly impatient, but pick one element, and then within that element, pick one practice, and do it regularly on a daily basis, and make it part of your routine. Then maybe as that becomes habitual, pick up another one. I mean, the whole goal here is to re-write the messaging that we’re sending ourselves. Start accentuating the positive.
In terms of respect, start creating boundaries around people who maybe you’ve had fun with historically, but they’re not giving you good messages now, or they’re not encouraging you in a positive direction. It doesn’t mean you need to throw them away, but just put them on a shelf for the time being, and create a world that makes you feel good.
Well, obviously you’re going to be stewing. Many people are stewing in a lot of grief, and upset, and turmoil, and that is all normal and good, because if you don’t stew a little bit, you’re not processing. You do need to go through the process.
Jennifer: Right, it’s part of it.
Gabrielle: Let’s be real. I mean, it’s really hard. It’s devastating. It’s a death for most people. Even if you totally know the divorce is right, and you’re the one who wanted it, it’s still the death of the family that you thought you were creating. There’s so many hard parts, and so what we want to do is just steep like a tea bag until the leaves lose their flavor, and at the same time, infuse sugar all along.
Jennifer: I love that.
Gabrielle: Thank you. I just made it up.
Jennifer: Oh, well. I love that picture in my head, because it’s like you have to go through it, but you can grow along the way. You can expand along the way. What you’re saying, you have to sit there, but you can sweeten along the way, you know?
Gabrielle: It’s funny, it’s so gratifying for me. I’ve been a divorce lawyer for so long, and I’m definitely a very wacky divorce lawyer. It’s so gratifying to finally be in a space where positivity is allowed. I think part of the reason that I’ve had such luck at helping people come to resolution no matter how big or small their finances are, or their problems are, is because I listen very carefully with the same passion that my client wants to be heard on if I’m litigating, or if I’m advocating. I recognize there’s always parts of commonalities. By just validating the common pieces, we can make so much headway.
Jennifer: I love that. Yeah, I mean, no matter where you’re at, this couple at some point really liked each other. They loved each other, right? And so there has to be a commonality.
Gabrielle: There’s always something positive there. Listen, some cases are very difficult at first blush to resolve. For instance, a relocation. Someone wants to take the kids out of state. That’s really hard, but even in a relocation case, there are always edges to explore. Don’t allow yourself to get too caught up in black and white thinking.
Jennifer: Yeah, that’s great. Okay, we have to take a break. I don’t want to, but we’re going to take a little break, and then we’re going to be right back with Gabrielle Hartley.
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We are back with Gabrielle Hartley, and we are talking about this radical way to separate. We were just talking about rewriting your narrative, recreating the story you’re living, exploring the edges, finding a way to make what’s happening in your life right now just a little bit better so that you find ways to feel good in it. One of my favorite quotes from your book is the following. It is, “Your legacy depends on your inner attitude, your outer composure, and your vision for the future.” Talk to us about the power of thinking in terms of legacy, and how that influences our ability to change that narrative in our life that you were just talking about.
Gabrielle: That is such a great question, Jen, because I think a lot of us are so stuck in the present. We spend so much of our life worrying about the past, dwelling on the past, worrying about the future, and we’re always trying to be in the present, but when it comes to a divorce, that’s a time where maybe it’s okay to think about the future in a positive way, and act like it’s happening now.
What I want to mention is the idea of creating a vision that you then internalize, okay? So I all it VIR, visualizer, internalize, and realize. When we create the vision, we need to be specific with as much detail about what we want to manifest. We want to keep it positive. You’ll notice when you read Better Apart that there are almost no negative words in the book. That was done purposefully. It’s definitely an art, because we really want to have the reader feel like they’re sitting with good friends who are empathic, but we can do that for ourselves, create our own empathic space by keeping our vision positive, and present, and specific.
What I would suggest that you do is get yourself something that you enjoy to write in, like a nice journal. I know that sounds really old fashioned, but there’s something powerful about the written word. Write out as a daily practice some space in your life that you’re not happy about, and write just in list form or in long hand if you want in sentences, how you would like it to look. Just imagine what your life could be, and let yourself go as fanciful as it comes to your head. Don’t censor it all, just let it flow.
Start with, “My life is …” on the top of the page, or start with, “My love life is …” or, “My children are …” “My relationship with my children is …” Start with a broad thing, and then go deep and narrow. Do this as a daily practice for a period of time until you’re going to notice that you’re going to start repeating the list, because you’re going to get so finely tuned with where you want to go.
Which brings us to creating your legacy, because you’re creating your legacy right in this moment. Every moment that we’re doing something, we are reinforcing who we are. Who we are is something that we want to be able to look back on and feel proud of, and feel like our children, if we have them, or our friends, or even just our own spirits or souls can look back upon and feel good about.
There was a book about if I had my life to do it again, I’d wear more purple, or paint my hair blue, or something like that, that was out in the ’90s. That’s sort of right now if you’re going through a separation or a divorce, you’re really being handed an opportunity to become more mindful, okay?
Gabrielle: We are often so task-oriented that we’re not giving that much weight to who we are and who we want to be. This is a great time to take a big, deep belly breath, and to start engaging and rooting with ourselves, and reimagining what our life can look like. Because we can’t really change the fundamental facts of our lives in a moment, but with baby steps, we can effectuate gigantic transformation.
Jennifer: That’s so powerful. I mean, I can even share from my own divorce way back when, it’s been years, and I would say that at the end of the day, when I made it to the other side and found my way through the tunnel, the thing that I was most concerned about and I looked back upon most was those moments when I wasn’t my best self, those moments that I wasn’t proud of, those moments when I could have knowingly done exactly what you said, and visualized, and really lived into the legacy that I know that I want to have, that I want to leave.
Gabrielle: Yeah, and it’s really hard to do when you’re going through it.
Gabrielle: That’s one of the reasons this book is structured so you could open any chapter and just read five or eight pages and close the book, because when you’re going through it, most people can’t really read, because they’re too upset. I mean, you could listen to it maybe in the car, but maybe you just don’t want to even think about it.
Jennifer: Yeah, you tune it out.
Gabrielle: Yeah, but I recently had someone contact me, it was a kind of interesting perspective. They said, “Thank you so much for writing this book. It’s really important. I’ve been divorced for nearly 40 years, and after reading it, I felt really upset, because I realized so many things I could have done differently, but you’re going to help so many people.” I don’t want to upset anybody, so I feel bad that I caused this sort of reflection, but at the same time, that was like the highest compliment, actually.
Jennifer: Yeah, but you know what? I think that even though we can’t go back in time and change how we behaved in the past, is it Maya Angelou, I think she says, “When you know better, do better.” It’s like, “Okay, I didn’t know better then, but I know better now, and I can make the shifts now as a result of what I’ve learned.”
Gabrielle: Absolutely. I mean, I think this person’s ex may be deceased now. Whatever, right, the specifics, but it is true. I mean, this person is still very much alive, and has many more opportunities to interact with other people, but it was very specific to that.
Jennifer: Very touching. I want to touch on really quick something else you say, which is, “Slow down.” You talk a lot about, “Even though this is a time in your life when you really just want to get it over with probably, and there’s the chaos, there’s all of this happening, but slow down.” How do you do that, and why is that so important?
Gabrielle: Slowing down is so important, because when you’re going through the divorce, everything feels much slower than it needs to be, and many people are very triggered by their own impatience, and their own desire to get to the finish line well before it’s time to. People will call and say … Let’s say I’m coaching with somebody, and they’re like, “Why hasn’t my lawyer called me back?” Or, “Why haven’t I heard back from my kid’s therapist yet?” Or, “Why hasn’t the judge done this or the other thing?”
The fact of the matter is, it’s a process. Divorce is a marathon, it’s not a sprint. The only way through it is mindfully. If you’re in too big a rush to resolve your case, it’s very likely that you’re going to create a resolution that you’re going to regret. I have had lots of people come in where they’re not ready for the separation, but their ex has moved on, and they want to go after this, that, and the other thing. Nine out of 10 times, the person who wants to move on is going to give away far too much to begin with, because they just want to be done.
If you’re on the receiving end of that, good for you. You’ll get a very good resolution financially maybe, or even maybe with the kids, but you want to make decisions that are made not too quickly, because when we make rash decisions, we often regret them.
Jennifer: Yeah, I mean, it goes back to what you said before about being responsive instead of reactive. I think when you’re slow, you’re coming up with a well thought-out, intentional response and plan, as opposed to reacting.
Gabrielle: That’s right, and it can be so hard to do that. I mean, I’m about as impatient as people come. We teach what we need to learn, and patience is definitely something that is a practice. One simple little thing that you can do is deep breathing exercises throughout the day. So deep belly breathing in through your nose, and then hold it at the top, and then out through your mouth through pursed lips. Do a count of five in, and then hold it for a couple of seconds, and then out for maybe seven or eight seconds. Do that just as a steady flow, maybe five breaths. It really slows down your body, slows down your mind, and it helps you make space.
If that even feels a little bit too woo-woo for you, sometimes you just need to put your attention elsewhere. I’ve had clients call me on a Saturday night. “We have court on Monday, and I don’t know why I haven’t heard from my lawyer yet. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I say, “You know what? Go meet a friend. If your lawyer had something to tell you, they would have. They probably just don’t want to charge you $600 to say, ‘See you on Monday,’ and listen to you vent for an hour.”
A lot of this is just recognizing that the emotional healing process is slow, that getting to the endpoint is slow. The whole process takes time. In this age of immediacy, it’s particularly hard.
Jennifer: Right, everything’s so quick.
Gabrielle: Right. We’re living in a time of instant gratification, and there is no instant gratification here.
Jennifer: Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense, and that ability to slow down and not only find the space, but connect your whole self, you know? Sometimes our energy will just separate from our internal self, and I think what you’re talking about, that deep breathing, is you kind of feel yourself come back together as a whole person.
Gabrielle: Exactly. That’s exactly right.
Jennifer: Yeah, which feels really good when you’re feeling scattered and chaotic.
Jennifer: We’re coming to the end here, and I know you said before how … not only said before, but your work is really based on how divorce can be an opportunity for transformation, is an opportunity for transformation. What’s possible? In your own words, if you’re inspiring the person who’s listening who is taking their first steps, is scared, believes that everything in life is over, the world has just fallen out from under them, what’s possible?
Gabrielle: I mean, anything’s possible, right?
Gabrielle: Opportunity is limitless. The thing to do is just to remember that you have all the agency in the world right in your own mind, in your own heart, and if you don’t have any professionals that you’re working with, if you are telling yourself a story that you don’t have any value, it’s time right here and right now to start reconnecting with yourself.
Find a coach or a therapist, if you need to get a lawyer, depending on where you’re at, start working with somebody who can help you tap into all that you can be, because so much of the negative messaging we have is so deep within us from the earliest parts of our life, and it takes a lot of work to start to get away or chip away at all of that baggage. It is never too late to press restart. You may be here right now, but in a moment, you can move incrementally forward and start remapping the whole vision of your future, no matter what is going on in your space today.
Jennifer: Yeah. It’s almost like stop believing what you’re seeing right now, and start believing in that vision you mentioned before, creating that vision, and internalizing it, and realizing it, right?
Gabrielle: Totally, and start your future today. Every moment is an opportunity to recalibrate and to press reset. These are not just words, this is true.
Jennifer: Right. No, absolutely. I think when you read the book and you start to incorporate those five elements, you start to really understand this less at a head level, and more where you’re embodying it at a body level, and seeing how you can actually incorporate it into your life.
Gabrielle: That’s right, that’s right. Again, if this yoga and meditation stuff doesn’t exactly speak to you, there are still things that you can do, even just signaling, “Let’s not call it a mantra, let’s call it an affirmation. I am radiantly calm.”
Jennifer: Right, find the thing that works for you. Well, I am so grateful that we had this time together. I love your energy. I love everything you have to say about this topic. I would love to talk to you for hours more.
Jennifer: For our listeners, if you are looking for any extra support beyond your lawyer’s office or your therapist’s chair, Gabrielle offers divorce coaching as well as mediation, but she offers divorce coaching to help you move through, get you beyond wherever you’re stuck. Definitely reach out to her. She’s an amazing, amazing person in this field.
Gabrielle: Thank you so much, Jen.
Jennifer: Where can they find you?
Gabrielle: Gabrielle, G-A-B-R-I-E-L-L-E Hartley, H-A-R-T-L-E-Y.com is my website, and there is a contact page, and there’s a list that you can join. If you would like to contact me, you can contact me right there. You can also message me right through Instagram. On Instagram, I’m @gabriellelhartley. I’d be more than happy to see how I can help you and your family elevate yourselves and move on from wherever you are right now. And Jen, thank you so much for having me.
Jennifer: Absolutely, thanks for being here. Have a wonderful day. We’ll see you next time everybody.
Thanks again to Gabrielle Hartley for joining us, and to all of you for listening. Next week, we will be joined by Susan Guthrie and Rebecca Zung, co-founders of Breaking Free Mediation, and hosts of the iTunes top 10 podcast Breaking Free: A Modern Divorce Podcast.
We will be talking about how quote unquote, “Winning,” in your divorce prepares you to win in your life. Make sure you subscribe so you can catch every new episode of Divorce and Other Things You Can Handle in your weekly feed. If you like what you hear, rate and review us to help other women like you be able to find us.
This podcast is for you, so email us at email@example.com with any questions or ideas that you may have. We look forward to hearing from you.
Bio: Gabrielle Hartley is an attorney, mediator, consultant, speaker and author. She is known for her unique, non-toxic approach to divorce that she has developed over two decades in practice. Gabrielle keeps 99% of her cases out of the courtroom and at the negotiating table as she effectively supports her clients to create a healthy, uplifted post-divorce life for them. Gabrielle launched Your Elegant Divorce to offer support to clients regardless of their location.
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